Are you going to Hell ???
"Unless there is imminent danger of death (just about ready to die) you are not to baptize an infant that will not be brought up in the Catholic Faith. Here we mean the Faith as we know it as true Catholics, that is, as taught and practiced from the founding of the Church by Christ. A non-Catholic (as a non-Catholic) cannot be saved. 'Outside the Church there is no salvation.' It is less terrible to go to hell without the indelible character of baptism than to go there with it."
http://www.truecatholic.org/baptismadm.htm
" 'Outside the Church there is no salvation' is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:
'There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.' (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
'We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.' (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
But man, following the example of his natural father, Adam, often disobeys the authority of God. The fact that the doctrine had to be thrice defined itself proves the Church's paternal solicitude in correcting her erring children who fall into indifferentism."
http://www.catholicism.org/eens.html
Some people wonder why I spend my time talking about the catholic church. They wonder why I don't talk about other religions. This is my reasoning. First, being that my wife is catholic, I have spent more time studying the catholic faith as opposed to the other faiths. Secondly, the catholic church is one of the only other faiths that not only claims to believe in the Bible, but takes credit for us having the Bible. They say they believe in the Bible, but many of their beliefs are not in the Bible. Not only that, these beliefs are in total opposition to the Bible. I am appalled by the fact that catholics believe that if you say something about their religion you are attacking them. They use much word-play to make excuses for their beliefs. As far as worshipping Mary... they say there are many different levels of worship, or they don't worship, they venerate.
When you get right down to it, if you ask them, "will I go to Heaven if I am not catholic?" They will say something like, "I am not your judge", or "only God knows," or something to that nature. If you look at the quotes I have given you, you will see what they really (or are supposed to) believe, but don't want to tell you this to your face.
Catholics believe that if you do not believe in the pope or go to their church, you will go to Hell. I believe you should be baptized (properly) and live a good christian life (doing what the Bible tells you to do) in order to get to Heaven. Are you guaranteed Heaven? NO! Are there exceptions to the rule? YES!!! Just look at Jesus on the cross.... we don't know if the criminal He let into Heaven was baptized or a good person, but Jesus let him enter Heaven. I don't believe catholics are baptized properly. I don't think they can enter Heaven because of this. We were given examples by Jesus on how to be baptized, but catholics do not follow these examples. They would rather follow their tradition.
These are things I believe. I hope I am wrong. My grandma and grandpa were not baptized properly. I truly hope they are in Heaven, but according to the Bible they are probably not. My wife has not been baptized properly, but I pray she comes to this realization. I don't claim to know everything. I don't claim to know who is going to Heaven or Hell. All I can do is read the Bible and believe what it tells me (after all, the Bible is God's Word).
If you say you believe the Bible, BELIEVE IT!!! If you don't, DON'T SAY YOU BELIEVE IT!!!
http://www.truecatholic.org/baptismadm.htm
" 'Outside the Church there is no salvation' is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:
'There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.' (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
'We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.' (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
But man, following the example of his natural father, Adam, often disobeys the authority of God. The fact that the doctrine had to be thrice defined itself proves the Church's paternal solicitude in correcting her erring children who fall into indifferentism."
http://www.catholicism.org/eens.html
Some people wonder why I spend my time talking about the catholic church. They wonder why I don't talk about other religions. This is my reasoning. First, being that my wife is catholic, I have spent more time studying the catholic faith as opposed to the other faiths. Secondly, the catholic church is one of the only other faiths that not only claims to believe in the Bible, but takes credit for us having the Bible. They say they believe in the Bible, but many of their beliefs are not in the Bible. Not only that, these beliefs are in total opposition to the Bible. I am appalled by the fact that catholics believe that if you say something about their religion you are attacking them. They use much word-play to make excuses for their beliefs. As far as worshipping Mary... they say there are many different levels of worship, or they don't worship, they venerate.
When you get right down to it, if you ask them, "will I go to Heaven if I am not catholic?" They will say something like, "I am not your judge", or "only God knows," or something to that nature. If you look at the quotes I have given you, you will see what they really (or are supposed to) believe, but don't want to tell you this to your face.
Catholics believe that if you do not believe in the pope or go to their church, you will go to Hell. I believe you should be baptized (properly) and live a good christian life (doing what the Bible tells you to do) in order to get to Heaven. Are you guaranteed Heaven? NO! Are there exceptions to the rule? YES!!! Just look at Jesus on the cross.... we don't know if the criminal He let into Heaven was baptized or a good person, but Jesus let him enter Heaven. I don't believe catholics are baptized properly. I don't think they can enter Heaven because of this. We were given examples by Jesus on how to be baptized, but catholics do not follow these examples. They would rather follow their tradition.
These are things I believe. I hope I am wrong. My grandma and grandpa were not baptized properly. I truly hope they are in Heaven, but according to the Bible they are probably not. My wife has not been baptized properly, but I pray she comes to this realization. I don't claim to know everything. I don't claim to know who is going to Heaven or Hell. All I can do is read the Bible and believe what it tells me (after all, the Bible is God's Word).
If you say you believe the Bible, BELIEVE IT!!! If you don't, DON'T SAY YOU BELIEVE IT!!!
posted by Pastor Jim | 11:46 PM
19 Comments:
"Catholics believe that if you do not believe in the pope or go to their church, you will go to Hell. I believe you should be baptized (properly) and live a good christian life (doing what the Bible tells you to do) in order to get to Heaven. Are you guaranteed Heaven? NO! Are there exceptions to the rule? YES!!! Just look at Jesus on the cross.... we don't know if the criminal He let into Heaven was baptized or a good person, but Jesus let him enter Heaven. I don't believe catholics are baptized properly. I don't think they can enter Heaven because of this. We were given examples by Jesus on how to be baptized, but catholics do not follow these examples. They would rather follow their tradition."
PJ - you've got me concerned about you on this one.
Neither baptism nor "living a good Christian life" are the things that get a person to heaven.
(But please correct me if I'm reading you wrong)
And yes, as a people saved by the grace of God, we are 'guarenteed' heaven. He chose us, not the other way around.
The Bible clearly presents the way of salvation as being those who call on the name of the Lord. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and all that He did to secure that salvation. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about as the heart of the gospel.
The 'GIFT' of God is eternal life for those who believe in Him. And nothing can 'snatch us from the Father's hand.' (John 10:28-29)
Now Jim, if there is more Scripture that I can give you, please let me know.
Gayla, by "doing what the Bible tells us" I mean believing in Him and spreading His gospel (and all of the other things). I just didn't want to list everything. Sorry, my laziness. I do believe though you must be baptized....
Mark 16:16 reads, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
You can not be baptized properly if you do not believe. As far as just having to believe to be saved, is that what you are saying? Someone just needs to believe Jesus is the son of God, and that person will get to go to Heaven no matter what? Correct me if I am misunderstanding you on this one. I don't agree with that. The vast majority of the world believes Jesus is the son of God, but the path to Heaven is narrow. You have to do more than just believe. Many people murder in the name of Jesus, are they guaranteed Heaven? I believe you have to believe, be baptized, and lead a good life.
Semantics - yes I do understand that you have to do more than merely 'believe' in the broadest sense of the word. As in, yes I 'believe' that George Washingon existed.
It's obviously a matter of believing that Jesus was born of a virgin, died for our sins, and rose again - calling on His name and receiving Him as Lord & Savior.
We're on the same page. :)
But you're adding 'works' to the cross of Christ.
See John 3
Jesus' own words to Nicodemus were, "you must be born again."
Also, Eph 2:8-9:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
As far as studying Scripture is concerned, we have to be careful. Always interpret Scripture WITH Scripture. The 'less clear' verses/passages have to be interpreted by the clearer ones. Plus you have to look at what the preponderance of Scripture indicates.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't follow the Lord's example in Believer's baptism; definitely we should. Baptism doesn't 'save' a person a person, though; neither does being a 'good person.' Truth is we can't be 'good.' I would have to ask, "what is good ENOUGH?" And what is a 'good life?' We still have a sin nature.
And in the Mark verse, the second half of it says, he who does not believe will be condemned - not he who does not believe and be baptized will be condemned.
Hmmmm....
Trying again.
John 3
John 3:
5 Jesus answered, "TRULY, TRULY, I say to you, unless one is BORN OF WATER and the Spirit HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD." 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, `YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.'
This is where being baptized properly comes into play. One must have to BELIEVE to become baptized. The end of the verse in Mark doesn't say anything about baptism because BELIEVING is a prerequisite to baptism. Not only can you not enter the Kingdom of Heaven if you don't believe, you can't be baptized if you don't believe. The Bible makes this very obvious. I believe in every case of baptism it speaks of the person believing before they are baptized.
Ephesians 2:
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
This is saying we won't be saved by the works MAN has made up to do, but CHRIST has prepared for us other works we MUST do. It says we have been created in Christ TO DO GOOD WORKS; to fulfill His prophecy.
Titus 3:
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that 'THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD SHOULD BE CAREFUL TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable to men.
I think we need to be careful when we speak of "works." There are two different kinds of "works." There are the "works" of the flesh, and the "works" of God. God does not want us to do the works of flesh which are just false shows of righteousness. He wants us to do the works He has taught us to do.
SALVATION:
1- "Whoever believes in the Son lives with eternal life, but he who will not believe in the Son will never know life." (John 3:36).
2- "If you do not eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life." (John 6:53-54).
3- "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, inherit the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me." (Matthew 25:34-39).
4- "If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).
5- "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself... do this and life is yours." (Luke 10:27-28).
LIES:
- Catholics believe that if you do not believe in the pope or go to their church, you will go to Hell.
"LIES:
- Catholics believe that if you do not believe in the pope or go to their church, you will go to Hell."
So, these popes never said these things?
The catholic church all through out it's existence has used the concept of hell, purgatory or whatever you wanna call it to keep the masses en ligne, ensuring that the people will abide by their repressive policies and that the people will pay their indulgences to further fund these repressive policies.
And as for the very concept of hell itself, Michel Onfray, militant atheist philosopher once put it: la religion est animé par une pulsion de mort généalogique. In other words religion is driven by a death wish, it can be considered to some extent as an obssesive death cult(the wording he uses, but in french) which exists almost solely to justify humanity's existence here on earth. It's only natural for a human being to undergo intense suffering to hope for an afterlife in the utopia which some call heaven and some call the kingdom of God. I think hell is a culmination of the catholics church hatred of pleasure, women, reason and science. Its a method by which the catholic church has ensured totalitarian control over its population all through out the age of the church
I think this concept of hell tells alot about the catholic church. I mean dont catholics think for one second that this very concept can be interpreted as an orwellian tactic to ensure the loyalty and support of its followers?
Thanks for your visit, AF. I accept all views here. That is a very interesting statement. I can understand why people don't believe in religion, per se, but I don't understand how people don't believe there is a "creator." Can you explain your thoughts on that?
I consider myself a positive atheist, meaning I do not believe in God and in the possibility that there could be a God. Now why is that? I feel the concept of an almighty creator seems like a very lazy and oversimplified way of explaining the complexity of life and our universe.
I like to always go back to the teleological argument to explain that. Creation in essence isnt something that stems from one primary movement or action. Like and architect building a house or a painter creating a masterpiece. The architect needs a team to work with him, the painter needs inspiration, therefore if we look at the universe's creation through our own human eyes and through this argument, it cannot be all the doing of one mighty entity. If God is an architect then were did he get all his ideas and matériel from? Who created God? And who created God's creator? The cycle of endless questioning thus ensues...
I also believe it is the interaction of various forces that brought about the natural process of human creation and evolution. Call it the big bang or whatever cataclysmic event that shaped our universe, but I'm ready to put my money on science and the scientific method any day over the rather simple thought of an almighty creator. Faith is intuition, its feeling and its based on no empirical evidence, thats why I trust science, it acutally builds upon fact.
And then again taking a radical empiricist point of view, God is just a word, a concept we came up with. We also took our own human experience to shape this god, just think about it, god is perfect, god is infinite, god is almighty, he is everything a mortal isnt. In the end God is simply a fantasy mirror image of the perfect man.
I see religion and god as metaphysics, attempts to explain reality in other words. It may serve a purpose to some who feel uncomfortable thinking that their existence is meaningless, but I guess I've gotten used to it :)
"Faith is intuition, its feeling and its based on no empirical evidence, thats why I trust science, it acutally builds upon fact."
Science is based on hypothesis, which aren't always proven. This is far from fact. I find it is the same as the belief of God; I can't prove to you God exists, just like you can't prove to me a "big bang" theory. I respect your opinion, and thanks for explaining yourself.
Atheist front:
The Catholic Church is repressive to those who follow their selfishness & pleasures instead of Truth. It is repressive for those who chose to follow their pleasures in order to be happy. But instead they get depression.
The Church is animated by the Life impulse (The Holy Spirit), instead of death. The Catholic Church is a pro-life Church. Atheists are driven by a death wish. They are angry because of the evil in this world. They are angry because of the suffering in this life. That’s the problem of atheism.
An Atheist is already in hell, which is separation from God. Atheists experience hell every night, when they cannot sleep well, nor forgive. They experience hell when they don’t love and move on, and let go.
PJ:
I was not surprised by your response PJ. You accepted all this guy’s views. Gosh. You are terrible. We should love this guy but we should never accept his views.
Atheist Front:
An Atheist doesn’t believe in God because he doesn’t see the beauty of this world, nor the beauty of this creation. Impurity is another reason why man cannot “see” God in his life.
If you have no answer (who created God), then you should conclude that the Creator must be non-created.
What about the light of human reason? Why did you exclude your reason? That’s terrible. May be you need some pills to re-activate your reason.
God is this… & more than that.
Well Angel anthony, I have the capacity to love, and I celebrate life, more than all the religious zealots who murder in the name of it. And that encompasses every religion, from christianity to Islam.
I'm also having a hard time with this concept of an almighty catholic church dictating your every move and telling you what to do. Just turn to any history books, how many have died in the name of the church. The Inquisition, the crusades, the witch hunts...the church ruthlessly murdered these people, they tortured them, they burned them at the stake. Now your gonna tell me that's celebrating life. Continuing with their death wish but from a more modern point of view of the catholic church...Pedophile priests, homo-bashing, the war on abortion and contrceptives. And let's turn back the clock a bit, a collaboration with fascist regimes, doesnt seem to celabrate life to me. Also, many nazi war criminals were sheltered by the catholic church. As a matter of fact here in quebec we enjoyed an almost fascist like dictatorship at the hands of Maurice Duplessis in the 1950'S
And by death wish, I am referring to the fact that your religion glorifies god and the afterlife, thus your religion enforces all of its repressive dogma all while prmising a seat in the kingdom of God, thats a death wish if you ask me, a life of privations in the name of a God we simply cannot or will ever be able to prove, that isnt celebrating our right to enjoy life, its repressing it. And yes you could say atheists dont get comfortable sometimes thinking there isnt any afterlife, but hey, religion is the opiate of the masses, a crutch for those who cannot accept the truth, the sigh of the oppressed creature, the soul of souless conditions. I'd rather fight religion than to cave into its doctrines ,and even if this god of your did exist, I would still oppose him, I would never forgive him or her for being an almighty divinity and letting humanity suffer like this. And finally the difference between you and me, Im here to improve the human condition on earth, not to procrastinate on my seat in heaven like you probably do.
And as for beauty, religion has never done anything for beauty. With radical islam using suicide bombers to kill innocent people and pope benedict XVI telling homosexuals they are filthy sinners, and also telling his followers how contraceptives are evil all while millions are dying from aids in Africa. Your gonna tell me thats beauty, that constitutes your definition of beauty. Please dont come telling me about the holy spirit, because the doings of religion and the catholic church can be seen all through ou the history books and they encompass mass murder, genocide, oppresion, war and the list goes on...
And PJ, the big bang theory and other scientific theories based on hypothesis have much more credibility than the church and god. Atleast we are using a method that involves experimenting with fact and empirical evidence, rather than blindly follow God and his dogma.
And angel anthony, you just made me prove my point further more, we are in hell right now...Thats the argument religion uses all the time, the world in which we live in is full of suffering, therefore to justify this suffering we invented a little place called heaven. And as for reason, I dont get your point AA, but I will tell you, reason is criticising God, not accepting him ;)
anthony, have you lost your ability to understand the English language while on your "journey?" I told athiest that I respect his opinion. I did not tell him I thought he was correct.
Pastor Jim
If baptism is required for salvation then the thief on the cross was not saved. And we know he was because Jesus said he would be with Him in paradise.
For quick clarifications on my last comment. Maurice duplessis was premier of quebec in an era we called la grande noirceur (the great darkness) this period was marked by the omnipresence of the catholic church in all spheres of life. If you did not align yourself to the doctrines of the church, you were simply cast out of society. Just another example of catholicism'S wrongdoings in history! And I also forgot to add this little comment:
Angel Anthony:
The Catholic Church is repressive to those who follow their selfishness & pleasures instead of Truth. It is repressive for those who chose to follow their pleasures in order to be happy. But instead they get depression.
This is EXACTLY what is wrong with religion. The drive for intolerance in that very statement is at the essence of all violence committed in the name of catholicism (and we could also argue the same for all other religions). It's also a very weak statement that goes something like this...I'm right, and your wrong! Perhaps your claim would be a bit more debatable if it explained why your truth is supposed to be universal. I would take religious arguments much more seriously if they werent as unfounded as that.
blestwithsons,
Did you read somewhere the thief was not baptized? Jesus and his apostles baptized multitudes, who is to say this thief was not one of them?
Even if he was not baptized (which we don't know), the thief was living under different rules than we are today. The old law was still in effect until Jesus' death on the cross. Once Jesus died, the law of the new covenant took over. Under this law we are to be baptized.
Thanks for your comment.
"I believe you should be baptized (properly) and live a good christian life (doing what the Bible tells you to do) in order to get to Heaven."
This is unscriptural Jim. We are saved by faith and not good works. Paul risked all to go to the council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) with the revelation and understanding that we do not need to follow the law to be saved.
Lorna,
You should read my previous comments about this. The scriptures are quite clear.
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