Don't Believe In God????
.......then go to a birthing class!!! It truly is amazing how the human body is created. My wife and I went to a birthing class Saturday to help prepare ourselves for the big day. It was wonderful. I learned quite a bit. How the body knows how to position the baby....all of the different nuances which have to take place for birth to happen....wow!!! It truly is a miracle. The human body could not have just evolved. Its too perfect.
posted by Pastor Jim | 8:22 PM
33 Comments:
PJ, glad to hear that all is well with everyone,
take care
have a great day!
PJ,
hope all is well,
and Happy Easter!
Darwin even said in Origin of Species that "To suppose that the eye [...] could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."
MDM
me again,
praying all is well, with you and your family?
take care
God bless!
I think if anything it shows just how complex the human body is in the face of this supposed God. The inner workings and machinations of a human being go far beyond the simplistic idea of a creator God.
Yes, Jel, all is well. Just busy. Everything is going wonderful with soon to be baby and wife. Under five weeks to go now. Can't wait.
Athiest Front,
your comment makes no sense, but oh well.
Glad to hear this!
God bless!
"The inner workings and machinations of a human being go far beyond the simplistic idea of a creator God."
Do you realize how moronic it sounds to say the idea of God is simplistic, when you believe the "complex" human body was created by a freak accident? By either the "Big Bang" or evolution? That is a "simplistic" belief.
By the way, I wasn't sure if I ever thanked you for stopping by my blog... but I appreciate the comment you left. I need to go study (two finals tomorrow), but I hope you have a great week!
What I am trying to say here is that the idea of God is a childish fairy tale-like conception that is no different from mythological Gods such as Zeus or Poseidon. I guess in more direct terms thats what I mean by simplistic.
I think its our own human bias & metaphysics that tries to rationalize creation and simplify it all down to a creator figure. Clearly as the only species with complex cognitive skills we have to give ourselves a raison d'être for what seems to us as a natural superiority over other species.
And evolution and science is not a moronic belief. It goes beyond just being a belief. Its a belief that finds its truth in empirical evidence unlike your assumption clearly based on faith, that there is an all-caring omnipotent being.
Science is on a progressive tangent always seeking answers to complex biological and existential questions, sometimes science can be wrong. But unlike religion it acknowledges its errors and corrects them.
"And evolution and science is not a moronic belief. It goes beyond just being a belief. Its a belief that finds its truth in empirical evidence unlike your assumption clearly based on faith, that there is an all-caring omnipotent being."
What is the truth of creation? If science has figured it out, please let me know! Remember, if it has been proven, it wouldn't be a theory.
Atleast evolution uses rational and logical means to arrive at truth, unlike religious faith or creationism which rejects an empirical approach.
Evolution embodies the scientific method. Creation on the other hand starts with the bias of having the belief that there is a creator, and from there tries by all means possible to rationalize its claims.
The beauty of science is that it doesnt really start anywhere. Science sees mankind and its surrounding environments as a complex entity whose processes and workings must be decyphered. Usually this process of understanding the complexities of our world is what enables humanity's condition on earth to improve (scientific research is what has enabled us to improve dramatically our quality of life here). Whereas creation, dumbs down complex biological organisms to the simple idea that an all mighty creator God was behind it all.
On top of all of this, those usually in favour of creationism are also the ones advocating a distorted religious conception that faith is superior to science and that science doesnt have all the answers. The same people propagating this view are also the ones responsible for slowing down medical research in the field of stem cells and at the same time advocating dogmatic abstinence over the use of condoms and contraceptives. There's a serious danger to suspending facts, creationism tries to negate scientific analysis for a very one sided view of the world...But anywho perhaps I should leave that for a whole other debate ;)
I'll just take that entire rant as, you can't answer my question.
"Atleast evolution uses rational and logical means to arrive at truth..."
Rational and logical to some people, not to all. There is no more logic in saying you believe in evolution than me saying I believe in God. Neither one of us can physically prove it to the other. You believe blindly (although you don't see it that way), and I believe blindly (I can admit some might see it that way).
It would be sad to have a god not capable of coming up with such an astoundingly simple, elegant, perfect system like evolution. The elegance uncovered by science is for most of us a proof of a higher order.
To question the beauty of the world, the simple elegance of mathmatics, physics, chemistry, and biology, is to me, sacrilege and fear based lack of faith.
Anon,
It's not that God CAN'T come up with evolution. It's that He told us He did not create the world that way. He created Adam and Eve. Not a single cell organism which turned into Adam.
"To question the beauty of the world, the simple elegance of mathmatics, physics, chemistry, and biology, is to me, sacrilege and fear based lack of faith."
I thought I was praising the beauty of the world. Giving praise to God. I don't think it just created itself. That, to me, is sacrilege!
Im sorry but last time I checked we had fossils to back up claims about evolution, I dont think I need to prove this to you! There's a difference here between me suscribing to the theory of evolution and you suscribing to the doctrines of the bible.
First of all its not my religion because I dont pray to Darwin and worship him as a deity, second, I am merely defending it because you feel its exactly like religious faith!
Scientists are working round-the-clock year in year out to go even deeper into the theory. On the other hand you guys still rely on some archaic document which is obviously completely irrelavant to the realities of our world. Dont you understand my argument that evolution and science backs up its claims with REAL evidence while religion backs up its claims with scriptures (which is not evidence) and that fuzzy feeling you guys call faith?
Oh and PJ, didnt know you bought into the Adam and Eve stuff. So the earth is 6000 something odd years old? We have scientific processes that show fossils being millions of years old, how does adam and eve account for that?
"We have scientific processes that show fossils being millions of years old..."
You obviously haven't done your homework. What is this "millions of years" based on? Pure guesses. There is absolutely no way of determining the age of something when you have nothing to compare it to. All of the dating methods are so out of whack you can't depend on any of them. You can give two scientists the same article and ask them to date it... I guarantee they will come up with different dates. Where is the hard core proof in that. I would consider that "completely irrelavant to the realities of our world".
"That fuzzy feeling you guys call faith?" This is the same thing you have that makes you think these non-factual "facts" are true. You take a couple of guys for their word. Just like me.
You should read some scientific facts that support the stories of the Bible. Quite entertaining. You might learn a thing or two.
Clearly PJ you haven't heard of the carbon-14 method now have you? Its not like scientists just guess this stuff!
As for the bible stories backed up by science, I'd like to hear about them!
And as for my belief in science, its not an impulsive fuzzy feeling, its not even a feeling, its just an empirical belief that is cemented in factual, material, palatable evidence...
Best wishes for your new family, child birth and parenthood are often as close as any of us get to our "true nature".
I appriciate your responce to my anon post but I do not agree with it, men make books, god made life, walk in light and tolerance.
Mike
http://www.wrestedscriptures.com/c03carbon-14/carbon14.html
Take a minute to read this, athiest.
"Clearly PJ you haven't heard of the carbon-14 method now have you? Its not like scientists just guess this stuff!"
YES!!! It is a guess. If it were not a guess, there would be proof. There is no proof. For someone caught up in science so much, you think you would want more proof.
Im sorry PJ but that article makes the fatal mistake of using scripture to try and explain man's age on earth...heres an example from point 4: God's creation was in equilibrium, hence the appearance of age. That is such a vague and unfounded claim. How can we really rely on the so called knowledge of the scriptures, when we cant even remotely begin to back up any of the claims in that book...I think its evident from that article that science and faith are simply incompatible.
"How can we really rely on the so called knowledge of the scriptures, when we cant even remotely begin to back up any of the claims..."
The same can be said about the theory of evolution. I've said it before. I can't physically prove my beliefs, and niether can you. Yet, you still think your beliefs are true and factual, and mine are not. Do you not see how conceited that is? Let's just agree to disagree. I'm willing to agree that we both have our beliefs and neither one of us has any physical proof to back them up.
Your argument simply fails to have any empirical evidence linked to it. Evolution, to put it plainly and simply, has fossils to back up its claims! Thus we have evidence that the we were once underdeveloped beings who through evolutionary processes became what we are today. I dont remember Adam and Eve being underdeveloped apes!
And If I go into the same kind of radically relativist logic that we cant prove anything (which is the logic your using) then lets take both evolution and the bible on purely theoretical grounds...Evolution has physical, palatable evidence that fits the complex mechanism of mother nature. While Scriptures on the other hand once told us that the earth was the center of the universe for the longest time, until science debunked that.
See PJ, the issue here is that evolution has more worth than the bible simply because its claims are not entirely unfounded. And even if we were to prove it to be completely false, would that give the bible more worth as a guiding metaphysical principle? I would think not, humanity can no longer rely on an archaic document that is completely divorced from the realities of our time.
"While Scriptures on the other hand once told us that the earth was the center of the universe for the longest time, until science debunked that."
What scriptures say that?
Taken from:
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/latest_2003/geocentrism.html
Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth.
- Hebrews 1:10
The sun, moon, and stars were created after the "foundation of the earth" was laid.
(Gen. 1:9-18)
Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
- Proverbs 30:4
He established the earth upon its foundations, so that it will not totter, forever and ever.
- Psalm 104:5
The world is firmly established, it will not be moved.
- Psalm 93:1 & 1 Chronicles 16:30
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth??Who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof?
- Job 38:4-6
For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he set the world on them.
- 1 Samuel 2:8
It is I who have firmly set its pillars.
- Psalm 75:3
Who stretched out the heavens...and established the world.
- Jeremiah 10:12
The only time the Bible depicts the earth as moving is during an earthquake:
The earth quaked, the foundations of heaven were trembling.
- 2 Samuel 22:8
The earth quakes, the heavens tremble.
- Joel 2:10
I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place.
- Isaiah 13:13
There was a great earthquake...and the stars of the sky fell...as if shaken from a tree.
- Rev. 6:12,13
I guess we can start out with this...
Not one of those verses depicted the Earth as the center of the Universe. So, again, I'll ask...
What scriptures say the Earth is the center of the Universe?
Well...The answer is right in front of you! You can argue all those passages are open to subjective interpretation, but then again isnt the whole bible really nothing but unfounded, vague, cryptic passages that can be easily distorted and interpreted for your own personal worldview?
And if scriptures dont specifically say such a thing, then why is it the catholic church had such an easy time convincing themselves geocentrism was legitimate? Truly its not just like they assumed the earth was the center of the universe. Somebody had to have relied on scripture at some point to establish and put in place such a doctrine.
I think your response draws a clear dividing line between the world of scripture and science. I just gave to you your holy book's conception of the universe, clearly if you took the time to separate yourself from the bias of your own faith you would see how evident geocentrism is in these passages. These passages show that your metaphysics (and by that I mean your worldview as dictated by Christianity) is open to gross misinterpretation and distortion, if we cant agree that those passages prove the bible's adherence to geocentrism, then imagine the multitude of things we wont agree on!
Re: This 6000 years bullshit. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that the Earth is so young when we have historical documents, artifacts, and monuments that date back to this period. I guess Adam and Eve's descendants went from fruit-eating to pyramid-building overnight.
Next time you're sick, Pastor Jim, I suggest you forget about seeing a doctor because clearly the scientific method is worthless to you. Instead, I suggest you pray to be healed. Best of luck.
You're just as naive as every religious person. Why don't you pray to the Mayan sun god? How about Zeus? Atum, the Egyptian God? What makes you right when you can so easily prove that the dozens of past Gods, who were worshipped by so many societies (and who believed in the existence of them), do not exist.
portulence,
Did I ever say anything about 6000 years. You have no idea what I believe or why I believe it. You, my friend, are the blind one. You can only see as far as your narrow mind will let you. Open your eyes, it's a beautiful world out here.
Also, athiest, its a far reach your making with those verses. Any person can take any one verse and make it mean what they want it to. The key is taking the verse in context.
``Any person can take any one verse and make it mean what they want it to. The key is taking the verse in context.``
And herein lies the dangers of organized religions and their holy books...They can be easily distorted for your own personal worldview and agenda.
It's very interesting that you believe human beings are so perfect that they could only have been created.
What about God? Surely he did not just appear, wherever you believe he might be. Do you believe that someone/thing created God? If God is also perfect, then surely he must have been created as well? Who created this original matter?
Good question, Porty. I don't know. No one knows, except God. I can admit to things I can't prove. What about you? How did the Earth appear? How did the Universe appear? Tell me your thoughts on these and your proof.
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